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Nov 16, 2009 -- Millionaire tax no solution to closing state budget gaps

Could a "millionaire tax" on families earning more than $200,000 be the solution to closing state budget gaps? Not so fast, says Clark.

We hear so much about the federal budget deficit. But estimates suggest that there's a combined deficit of more than $140 billion at the state level. Of course, not all states are created equal. Some control spending and taxes and others don't.

The problem with states letting taxing and spending go unchecked is that residents are free to leave. And leave they have in absolutely stunning numbers.

Barron's reports that an average of 11,000 people moved every single day during a 10-year period -- including weekends and holidays -- from the highest tax states (California, New York, New Jersey, Ohio) to lower tax states.

In one pointed example, the low tax state of Texas gained almost 750,000 residents from 2000-2008. That was at the same time that almost 1.5 million people left California. This is no accident. States that think they'll close a budget gap by taxing the rich are mistaken. The rich will just pack it up and move out of there!

Unfortunately, Clark won't be able to answer any questions submitted via commenting. If you have a question, please try posting it to our message boards.

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What others are saying

  • Taxes
    You guys are making me happy that I left California and moved to Washington state...
  • business
    I own a company that makes cabinets and started from scratch in Los Angeles. I employed 25 people and provided health insurance to them..I could not take CA anymore so I closed my business and am going to reopen in TN. another 25 people on the dole in CA and about 1.2 M in taxes leaving that state..congrats for driving me out of CA.
  • Property Taxes
    Property Taxes when added to the amount of a mortgage together actually should be what is used to formulate economics surplus or deficit. The median home value of owner occupied housing in California is $211,000 plus, while in Texas its only $82.500. When you combine the two, its much less expensive to live in Texas.
  • @joe Re:Texas Taxes
    Yes, property taxes in Texas are high because you guys have no state income taxes. Local taxes are going to be collected on way or another mostly to pay for schools and local government.

    I am not a millionaire and certainly not loving the millionaire lifestyle but my combined economy would be hovering close to the 200k solution. If you want to tax the rich then tax them. Those that make over 1.5 million a year in income. That's a good start. Taking those higher that make only 200k plus is not a good option.

    Clark likes to hold up Texas as a beaming example of a low tax high return state. He views the state as being low tax and pro-business. But in the late 80's I remember all those half-finished homes in Houston when the oil prices collapsed. Texas has a long history of boom to bust. And today, the Texas economy is highly driven by oil and gas related industries just as years ago. This makes Texas a bit of an anomaly when compared to other states. Saying Texas is having people move to it because of favorable tax treatment is a hasty conclusion and illogical. People are moving to Texas because gas and oil prices are still historically high and jobs are to be had in Texas by the oil and gas industry. People are leaving California due to proposition 13 and job losses. Particularly young people who do not own a house and whose parent's do not own a house in California.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_%281978%29
  • famous saying
    margaret thatcher, former britain prime minister said it aptly: "socialism is great, until you run out of rich people". case closed.
  • Harsh but true?!
    What are you doing for a living and what's your worth???!!!
  • Dave <-- got owned.
  • Poor Understanding of Basic Economics
    It is amazing to me the lack of understanding of basic economics by some of you people who listen to Clark Howard. First of all, for those that want to "tax the heck out of the rich," you need some simple explanations. 80% of all millionaires have earned their money in their lifetime (no one gave it to them or they were not lottery winners). 2/3s of those own small businesses. So if you soak these eeeevil rich, you will hurt the poor. Why??? How many poor people do you know that hire people. It is obvious to anyone that small businesses hire almost all the newly created jobs in the last 10 years. You take away capital (especially now with credit hard to come by), small businesses will either delay hiring or lay people off.

    Why do many of you care what others make??? Is it because it makes you realize that you are a failure in the free market economy, or that you are have no value beyond what a union arbitrarily tells you your worth. For those of you who were vastly overpaid in the auto industry, your area of "expertise" will not come back anytime soon. You need to retrain your skills and get ready for the next century, not waiting for the last century to come back. 40 hour work weeks are for losers, go to school, get skills, work a BS job, and provide for yourself and your family. Otherwise, you are just like a leach.

    Harsh but true!
  • Other BAD income taxes happening too.
    Oregon double stings people who move here, and bring their money with them. If you don't hide your assets in cash under your bed, then expect a corrupt State of Oregon "tax audit".

    I know of someone who paid income tax on funds in another state, and Oregon tried to re-tax that same money twice, when the person moved here.

    So, pay attention if you move to another state or bring money into a corrupt state that double taxes the same funds ( regardless of how you made them) twice.

    Double taxing should be illegal and stopped. People are living in states they hate just because they are afraid to move an lose money. ( think retired people)
  • state taxes
    hey clark, where does TEXAS get a lot of it's state revenue? OIL, they tax oil that is exported to other states. so people in the other 48 states,alaska does the same thing, help support people in texas.

    how about california using it's NATURAL RERSOURCE, their ports and the entry points from mexico, to balance it's budget, they could put a USERS FEE on everyting that is brought into california. they could balance their budget and have a surplus like alaska and give money back to it's people.

    don't talk to me about texas being a low tax state, when all they are doing is exploiting a natural resource to benefit only the people of texas. i though we the UNITED STATES of america. one country for all the people.
  • one example
    i work at home and can literally work anywhere in the world with high speed internet. every so often, my family talks about moving to California, but so far, we have decided not to board a sinking ship. not only does high taxes force people out, it also discourages people with good jobs from moving in.
  • Class envy good politics but bad economics
    Class envy is a common tool of manipulation by politicians, but it always ends up having the opposite effect than was intended.

    Taxing the rich never works long-term because of several simple dynamics:

    1) The core problem (overspending, budget deficits, corruption, etc) are not fixed and continue unabated.

    2) The "rich" pass on the tax cost to the "poor" by reducing income and/or costs to maintain status quo. Many comments above illustrate several possible paths (reduce employment, delay business expansions, move overseas or to lower tax areas, manipulations of the tax codes, etc).

    3) The overall effect is a decrease in revenue at state and federal level which leads to higher taxes and the cycle continues.

    The way to improve the economics is to reduce tax burdens to stimulate business expansions and higher employment. History has shown this over and over.

    I suggest reading Atlas Shrugged.
  • Don't Californicate the rest of the US
    Giving people money for doing nothing is at the crux of the problem in California. They have the most generous plans for feeding, housing, educating and providing medical services to illegal immigrants, among numerous other social programs. That's fine - I am a strong believer in states rights and that's what the people voted for so that's what they get.

    They also voted that the 'rich' should pay for it. Well the rich are voting with their feet and leaving the state. And its not just 'rich' corporations, but small businesses and average families, even retirees are leaving to places more affordable.

    Once California has taxed the 'rich' to the point of being poor like everyone else, who will pay the tax bills?? This is why they have the largest state budget deficit of any state, the largest in their history.

    Let's hope other states do not follow their example.
  • Very Simple
    I own a service business with 15 full time employees - my numbers vary based on demand. However when I have a significant increase in my costs (such as a recent increase in workmans comp) then I simply reduce my payroll - its the same for taxes - we would be so much better off if we went to a consumption based tax vs a payroll tax - there is a huge "cash only" market out there that is not being taxed.
  • No Sir, Your Reasoning (Or Lack Of) Is Idiotic
    Sir, you "reasoning" is illogical. Perhaps an emotion-based lashing out satisfies your need for 'revenge' against successful people, but not those of us who prefer to view success as a goal, not an evil.

    Several things seem to escape people who try to pass off the "tax the rich" slogan:
    1. The "rich" (successful) people are not stupid. If costs (taxes, here) are increased, losses must be decreased in other areas: job cuts, reduced investments locally, fewer donations.

    2. Additional taxes are of no use if the taxes are not used appropriately.
    Taxes to do not a solution make.

    3. Often the "rich" are not some elite, high-brow people but rather are successful people who started with little-to-nothing. They should not be penalized for taking on the risk, initiative, and hard work that others are not willing to do.

    4. Increased taxes are a great way to ensure more jobs & American business are sent to foreign countries.

    Envy is the source of many bad decisions.
  • Who are those rich people?
    I'll tell you who: small business owners, that's who. Tax their profits even more and they will either move or do something else for a living, which leaves employees out on their own. How does this help anyone? Worse, politicians usually just waste that extra tax money on even bigger government. Again, how does this help anyone?

    One unintended result of all this mess is that average Joes and Janes are stepping up to run for office out of sheer disgust for the way things are now being run. Meg Whitman here in CA is a good example. We need better leadership, not more idiot politicians that ignore the will of the people.
  • We're all going to be millionaires
    Look folks, simmer down a bit and ponder this. Maybe in 10 years time or so, the average American will have a job that pays just as much, maybe more than today, maybe even working less in the bargain. The only problem is the new American dollar will be worth less than, say, the peso and euro convergence value. Please pay in yuans, and make it payable to the Shanghai/psuedo commie democracy where you're free to make as much as you want as long as the govenment says so.
  • Wealthy and Corporation will move to Idaho?
    I use to believe that the wealthy created jobs in America and at one point it may have been true. Now the wealthy create jobs for China and Korea because of greed for insane profits. So don't be surprised when instead of Idaho that they just leave the country.
  • TAXES
    This is exactly what will happen if the 2 taxes in Oregon are not repealed on Jan 26th. The wealthy and corporation will move to Idaho which has a lower taxes. Oreeon has the highest corporate taxes in the world!
  • I'm Not a Genuis
    Look here Mr. Ed T. I never said I was a genuis and don't call me an IDIOT! I just know that I have been out of work and for a long time and am paying no income tax now. I have been in the auto and housing industry which both crashed and I expect the government sector and healthcare industry to crash too if people continue to loose jobs. The rich will pay anyway cause they have the money and I don't and I would love for them to end up jobless and poor too. The rich can live anywhere but if they work (say as an actor in Hollywood)in California they will pay California state income tax. And another thing I hate paying for the bank CEO's bonus and helping to shore up those banks and their share holders. Those banks should have FAILED and the stock holders lost their money and the CEOs fired and out on their cans. What is going on now is not capitalism but the well off class helping the wealthy to stay wealthy. And it all started under Bush with Bear Sterns. So I say again tax the heck out of them.
  • state taxes
    Texas property taxes are ripoff,almost double than California i lived in both states
  • Sure tax the rich - if you're an IDIOT
    Dave, rich people can live pretty much where they want to. If you abuse them enough, they will pack up and leave. So what you say? Well consider this Mr. Smart Guy, in our progressive tax system, wealthy people, the top 1%, pay about 25% of the taxes. That means if just half of them get fed up and leave, taxes for geniuses like you will have to go up 20%-30% to make up the difference. How do you like them "spread the wealth around" apples?
  • Rich People Leaving
    Rich folks aren't leaving California Clark? If a rich person's livelyhood is based in the state then I seriously doubt they are going to just pack up and move. I have to disagree. Tax the heck out of them. They have the most to loose in war and crime so they should pay the most.
  • Millionaire tax no solution
    It's no just the rich who are leaving high-tax states. High taxes contribute to a higher cost of living, and the middle class gets hit with that. Between 2001 and 2006, my daughter-in-law had 3 aunts (with husbands and kids) flee California (2 families from L.A., 1 from San Diego) for a much lower cost-of-living in Houston.
  • state tax
    Does anyone know where to find ranking of other states for lower tax rates?
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