Ultra soft toilet paper a hazard to the environment on clarkhoward.com

Clark's mind is in the toilet with thoughts on the underlying costs of ultra soft toilet paper!

The consumer champ has seen several newspaper articles about environmentalists being upset over the marketing push for ultra soft toilet paper. The production of this bathroom tissue requires that old growth trees be cut down. Environmentalists prefer that we use toilet tissue made from recycled paper goods.

But Consumer Reports recently rated toilet paper and found that ultra soft brands scored well according to their criteria. Green toilet papers, on the other hand, scored relatively low. In fact, the top green paper came in at unlucky No. 13 on the tally.

In general, Americans prefer ultra soft toilet paper to harder tissue made from recycled goods. And then there's the question of cost. Green toilet tissue tends to be more expensive than your standard issue roll.

When manufacturers can make an affordable toilet paper that's pleasant to use and also good for the environment, that's when he'll buy. But for now, Clark's green goes for something that's not green!

Want your say? Vote in our poll!

What others are saying

toilet paper
The government has invaded almost every part of my life, now my BATHROOM???

The real problem is our sewer systems were not made to flush tp with such a small amount of water as all the water saver toilets and the sewers need revamping.
By Jackie @ 10/20/09 07:48:17 AMreport abuse
"Green" T.P.
I have discovered a cheap T.P. Not only is it green, but also covers most of the other colors in the spectrum. Last year's Sears catalogue. Please recycle.
By Frank Q. Ray @ 10/19/09 11:24:21 PMreport abuse
TP: One Consumer's Compromise
Green TP is best environmentally but rough esthetically; love European bidets but have no room to install one; ditto a Toto Washlet which also is $1000CAD just to purchase. What to do? Use 2-3 sheets only of soft TP per WC visit until manufacturers create a comparable green product.
By Ziti @ 10/19/09 10:02:55 PMreport abuse
phone books
I have a stack of old phone books...I will try using them for TP. :)

Greenpeace has a guide to papergoods and 7th Generation and GreenForest rated high.

Amazon has the 7th Generation for free shipping.
By Steve @ 10/15/09 05:09:01 AMreport abuse
Let's T.P. it!
Most people buy Charmaine and Cottelle for medical reasons. Which is much cheaper and better for the toilet than those medical wipes sold in plastic tubs.
By Mermaid @ 10/12/09 03:54:08 PMreport abuse
@Marty McFly
Again another bull headed person posts a yawning HAHAHA which is just really sad. Since you state your affirmation for eduction, the "virgin" wood is not necessarily old growth forest wood except for a particular paper producer that does prefer old growth forests from South America. That is a problem. That paper producer is under a lot of pressure at the moment to find an alternative in stream source and they have agreed to do so. Maybe your tree crops for South Georgia. That's fine. The other side of the argument is "virgin" wood vs. recycled wood which still contains quite a bit of "virgin" in the form of scrap wood as well truly recycled paper. This goes towards a larger push to do some paper recycling. A related but separate issue.

Finally, trees are only crops in the the lower 48 where we have cut down the natural growth forests many times over and now plant pine trees or other fast growing wood for paper products and things like OSB board mostly. The remaining "virgin" or non-crop forests are mostly located in Canada, China, South America, etc and are still being used for lumber and furniture and for one tissue manufacturer - super soft toilet tissue.
By Ben @ 10/12/09 09:05:30 AMreport abuse
Facts about TP
I believe the premise of the article is incorrect. Tissue is a relatively inexpensive paper product (sanitary product), often produced from virgin pulp, recycled paper, or a combination of both. However, I don't believe it would ever be produced from old-growth forests for a couple of reasons - 1) Old-growth would typically end up as lumber - if anything was "pulped" from it, it would be leftovers from the lumber operation. 2) The lignin content most likely make it less attractive than younger growth to be attractive for pulping

In addition to that, "creping" is what makes TP soft, not the age of the tree that's used to produce it. It puts "micro-folds" in the paper, bulks it up and decreases it's "wet-strength" so that it breaks down faster when wet. (Like crepe paper streamers for a party, only on a smaller scale)
By MG @ 10/10/09 03:11:55 PMreport abuse
toilet paper
My household has been using tp made with recycled material for at least 10 years -- it's not new. It's not the softest, but it's not bad either. Try it!
By suzie q @ 10/10/09 06:47:59 AMreport abuse
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Dear environmentalists,

Please get educated.

Thank you.

This is another example of environmentalists who act on emotion rather than facts. Apparently they aren't aware of TREE FARMS. This is a place where TREES ARE GROWN SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING CUT DOWN. Trees are a crop - just like corn, tomatoes, beans, okra, etc. The crop is grown specifically so it can be harvested. I guess environmentalists think that logging companies just pick some random forest on someone else's property and start cutting down trees. When are the environmentalists going to start whining about us cutting down corn stalks?
By Marty McFly @ 10/09/09 11:19:43 PMreport abuse
Big Picture
I am disappointed with Mr. Howard's short-sightedness. He is prioritizing saving pennies and caressing his rear over providing a safer planet for our children. Mr. Howard, you are missing the big picture.
By Dissapointed @ 10/09/09 09:49:46 PMreport abuse
TTissue
As home owners with our own well and septic, the "softer and the ones with lotion", do not break down, and do cause septic problems. Our 3rd pump out in 3 years, and the #1 guy at the #2 business, said the paper makes the difference, and he offered to show us, but we took his expert advice.
By Glenda @ 10/09/09 08:47:51 PMreport abuse
Why don't we have bidets in the U.S.? With out one you really aren't that clean.
By anonymous @ 10/09/09 03:02:39 PMreport abuse
Wipes with cheap paper
I have a septic tank so I use Scott ultra-thin TP, it's a bit rough so I use a baby wipe first then finish off with the sandpaper. I bought some "extra soft" TP once and it was so thick it kept plugging up my eco toilet, it was like 4 ply! Wasteful. I need a bidet!

Sad to see anti-environmental people here.
By Chris @ 10/09/09 12:15:53 PMreport abuse
Trees
Trees grow and die. If people would bother to look at the Gold Rush pictures they would see that many trees have replaced the trees cut down in that time. My own neighborhood as well. There are still many old trees around here and new trees sprout like weeds and create a very dangerous fire danger. I think that one of the reasons for this is the use of gas and oil for heating and cooking. Who wants to cut and split five cords of wood to keep warm through the winter.
Cute the Trees and stop worshipping them. And please use some form of TP!
Mark
By Mark Hillyard @ 10/09/09 12:00:57 PMreport abuse
toilet paper
Could do what we did in the Army. Use one sheet with a hole cut in the middle about 5/8 inch in diameter.
By Wendell @ 10/09/09 11:44:07 AMreport abuse
Toilet Sacrifice
Using a slightly less soft toilet paper is a small price to pay to save old growth trees. They are hundreds of years old and are really not replaceable. If hundreds of millions of people can survive not having soft toilet paper (Everyone outside of the industrialized world and everyone who ever lived prior to the last 20 years or so) why can't we help save old growth trees?
By Frank Beaven @ 10/08/09 10:32:06 PMreport abuse
go natural
why not just do what the watermelons (green on the outside and red to the core-tree hugging commies) really want. Just use your bare hand. My understanding is that in some countries such as india this is common. any comments?
By brian @ 10/08/09 09:04:31 PMreport abuse
Seriously!
Lefties are debating the merits of TOILET PAPER? Are you serious? One must wonder if Obama will outlaw premium Free-Enterprize tush-wipe in favor of Government-approved, recycled, environmentally-friendly burlap. And you'll be required to hang it up to dry, then reuse one more time before flushing of course. Anyone caught using outlawed butt-wipes will be subject to a $4,000 fine in the form of an added tax, to be strictly enforced by the IRS.

First these clowns are in our bedroom...now they're in the bathroom. Give me a break!
By Another Old Guy @ 10/08/09 08:38:02 PMreport abuse
Needed
If you suffer from hemorrhoids the soft tissue is a requirement.
By mbt @ 10/08/09 07:39:10 PMreport abuse
anonymous
Your either for the "mother earth" cause,
or your playing games. Which is it? At the
very least, you should only be using 1-2
squares, hole/fold for fingernails, c/o
Jewel...
By justice @ 10/08/09 05:39:28 PMreport abuse
@justice re:econuts
As an eco-nut I have a great idea where to put at least one corn cob. Pine cones cost extra but I am willing to offer you a two for one deal.
By anonymous @ 10/08/09 04:51:17 PMreport abuse
econuts
Eco nuts need to use corn cobs, pine cones, leaves and sand. If your going to
save $, save to the MAX...
By justice @ 10/08/09 04:43:20 PMreport abuse
Old Growth Forests? REALLY?
Clark....do you REALLY think that toilet paper comes from hardwood tree pulp? And why, logically, does not using recycled paper automatically mean Old Growth is being cut down? It's a very specific type of forest, and a relatively small part of logging as a whole...where commercial tracts of pine, specifically planted for that purpose, are harvested for paper pulp. More of your same propaganda, big guy. At least you're not repeating yourself today.
By ThatGuy @ 10/08/09 04:41:52 PMreport abuse
50%
I think that Zardo has arrived at a solution.

Since toilet paper is normally two ply, why not use recycle on top sheet, and old forest on bottom sheet?

That would be a bipartisan solution!
By Scott @ 10/08/09 03:40:46 PMreport abuse
50%
i use one sheet soft on top and one sheet green on bottom. not the best environmentally friendly solution, but better than not doing anything at all.
By zardo @ 10/08/09 03:36:06 PMreport abuse
Messy Situation!
Do we get a pass on this issue if we promise to use both sides of the paper?

Of course doing so would increase hand washing and overall soap consumption!
By Scott @ 10/08/09 03:16:59 PMreport abuse
No green for me
I tried that crappy green toilet paper, only beause I had a FREE coupon for it. It was rough and ugly stuff to use! Give me the soft stuff!
By Pat @ 10/08/09 03:05:50 PMreport abuse
A better way
We installed Toto washlets in our house (TP still available to guests) and we now skip the soft versus green debate entirely. The washlets are amazing gadgets that pay for themselves in a few years, and you leave the bathroom feeling just as clean as after a shower.
By Alex @ 10/08/09 02:53:34 PMreport abuse

toilet paper

The government has invaded almost every part of my life, now my BATHROOM???

The real problem is our sewer systems were not made to flush tp with such a small amount of water as all the water saver toilets and the sewers need revamping.

By Jackie @ 10/20/09 07:48:17 AMreport abuse

"Green" T.P.

I have discovered a cheap T.P. Not only is it green, but also covers most of the other colors in the spectrum. Last year's Sears catalogue. Please recycle.

By Frank Q. Ray @ 10/19/09 11:24:21 PMreport abuse

TP: One Consumer's Compromise

Green TP is best environmentally but rough esthetically; love European bidets but have no room to install one; ditto a Toto Washlet which also is $1000CAD just to purchase. What to do? Use 2-3 sheets only of soft TP per WC visit until manufacturers create a comparable green product.

By Ziti @ 10/19/09 10:02:55 PMreport abuse

phone books

I have a stack of old phone books...I will try using them for TP. :)

Greenpeace has a guide to papergoods and 7th Generation and GreenForest rated high.

Amazon has the 7th Generation for free shipping.

By Steve @ 10/15/09 05:09:01 AMreport abuse

Let's T.P. it!

Most people buy Charmaine and Cottelle for medical reasons. Which is much cheaper and better for the toilet than those medical wipes sold in plastic tubs.

By Mermaid @ 10/12/09 03:54:08 PMreport abuse

@Marty McFly

Again another bull headed person posts a yawning HAHAHA which is just really sad. Since you state your affirmation for eduction, the "virgin" wood is not necessarily old growth forest wood except for a particular paper producer that does prefer old growth forests from South America. That is a problem. That paper producer is under a lot of pressure at the moment to find an alternative in stream source and they have agreed to do so. Maybe your tree crops for South Georgia. That's fine. The other side of the argument is "virgin" wood vs. recycled wood which still contains quite a bit of "virgin" in the form of scrap wood as well truly recycled paper. This goes towards a larger push to do some paper recycling. A related but separate issue.

Finally, trees are only crops in the the lower 48 where we have cut down the natural growth forests many times over and now plant pine trees or other fast growing wood for paper products and things like OSB board mostly. The remaining "virgin" or non-crop forests are mostly located in Canada, China, South America, etc and are still being used for lumber and furniture and for one tissue manufacturer - super soft toilet tissue.

By Ben @ 10/12/09 09:05:30 AMreport abuse

Facts about TP

I believe the premise of the article is incorrect. Tissue is a relatively inexpensive paper product (sanitary product), often produced from virgin pulp, recycled paper, or a combination of both. However, I don't believe it would ever be produced from old-growth forests for a couple of reasons - 1) Old-growth would typically end up as lumber - if anything was "pulped" from it, it would be leftovers from the lumber operation. 2) The lignin content most likely make it less attractive than younger growth to be attractive for pulping

In addition to that, "creping" is what makes TP soft, not the age of the tree that's used to produce it. It puts "micro-folds" in the paper, bulks it up and decreases it's "wet-strength" so that it breaks down faster when wet. (Like crepe paper streamers for a party, only on a smaller scale)

By MG @ 10/10/09 03:11:55 PMreport abuse

My household has been using tp made with recycled material for at least 10 years -- it's not new. It's not the softest, but it's not bad either. Try it!

By suzie q @ 10/10/09 06:47:59 AMreport abuse

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dear environmentalists,

Please get educated.

Thank you.

This is another example of environmentalists who act on emotion rather than facts. Apparently they aren't aware of TREE FARMS. This is a place where TREES ARE GROWN SPECIFICALLY FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING CUT DOWN. Trees are a crop - just like corn, tomatoes, beans, okra, etc. The crop is grown specifically so it can be harvested. I guess environmentalists think that logging companies just pick some random forest on someone else's property and start cutting down trees. When are the environmentalists going to start whining about us cutting down corn stalks?

By Marty McFly @ 10/09/09 11:19:43 PMreport abuse

Big Picture

I am disappointed with Mr. Howard's short-sightedness. He is prioritizing saving pennies and caressing his rear over providing a safer planet for our children. Mr. Howard, you are missing the big picture.

By Dissapointed @ 10/09/09 09:49:46 PMreport abuse

TTissue

As home owners with our own well and septic, the "softer and the ones with lotion", do not break down, and do cause septic problems. Our 3rd pump out in 3 years, and the #1 guy at the #2 business, said the paper makes the difference, and he offered to show us, but we took his expert advice.

By Glenda @ 10/09/09 08:47:51 PMreport abuse

Why don't we have bidets in the U.S.? With out one you really aren't that clean.

By anonymous @ 10/09/09 03:02:39 PMreport abuse

Wipes with cheap paper

I have a septic tank so I use Scott ultra-thin TP, it's a bit rough so I use a baby wipe first then finish off with the sandpaper. I bought some "extra soft" TP once and it was so thick it kept plugging up my eco toilet, it was like 4 ply! Wasteful. I need a bidet!

Sad to see anti-environmental people here.

By Chris @ 10/09/09 12:15:53 PMreport abuse

Trees

Trees grow and die. If people would bother to look at the Gold Rush pictures they would see that many trees have replaced the trees cut down in that time. My own neighborhood as well. There are still many old trees around here and new trees sprout like weeds and create a very dangerous fire danger. I think that one of the reasons for this is the use of gas and oil for heating and cooking. Who wants to cut and split five cords of wood to keep warm through the winter.
Cute the Trees and stop worshipping them. And please use some form of TP!
Mark

By Mark Hillyard @ 10/09/09 12:00:57 PMreport abuse

Could do what we did in the Army. Use one sheet with a hole cut in the middle about 5/8 inch in diameter.

By Wendell @ 10/09/09 11:44:07 AMreport abuse

Toilet Sacrifice

Using a slightly less soft toilet paper is a small price to pay to save old growth trees. They are hundreds of years old and are really not replaceable. If hundreds of millions of people can survive not having soft toilet paper (Everyone outside of the industrialized world and everyone who ever lived prior to the last 20 years or so) why can't we help save old growth trees?

By Frank Beaven @ 10/08/09 10:32:06 PMreport abuse

go natural

why not just do what the watermelons (green on the outside and red to the core-tree hugging commies) really want. Just use your bare hand. My understanding is that in some countries such as india this is common. any comments?

By brian @ 10/08/09 09:04:31 PMreport abuse

Seriously!

Lefties are debating the merits of TOILET PAPER? Are you serious? One must wonder if Obama will outlaw premium Free-Enterprize tush-wipe in favor of Government-approved, recycled, environmentally-friendly burlap. And you'll be required to hang it up to dry, then reuse one more time before flushing of course. Anyone caught using outlawed butt-wipes will be subject to a $4,000 fine in the form of an added tax, to be strictly enforced by the IRS.

First these clowns are in our bedroom...now they're in the bathroom. Give me a break!

By Another Old Guy @ 10/08/09 08:38:02 PMreport abuse

Needed

If you suffer from hemorrhoids the soft tissue is a requirement.

By mbt @ 10/08/09 07:39:10 PMreport abuse

anonymous

Your either for the "mother earth" cause,
or your playing games. Which is it? At the
very least, you should only be using 1-2
squares, hole/fold for fingernails, c/o
Jewel...

By justice @ 10/08/09 05:39:28 PMreport abuse

@justice re:econuts

As an eco-nut I have a great idea where to put at least one corn cob. Pine cones cost extra but I am willing to offer you a two for one deal.

By anonymous @ 10/08/09 04:51:17 PMreport abuse

econuts

Eco nuts need to use corn cobs, pine cones, leaves and sand. If your going to
save $, save to the MAX...

By justice @ 10/08/09 04:43:20 PMreport abuse

Old Growth Forests? REALLY?

Clark....do you REALLY think that toilet paper comes from hardwood tree pulp? And why, logically, does not using recycled paper automatically mean Old Growth is being cut down? It's a very specific type of forest, and a relatively small part of logging as a whole...where commercial tracts of pine, specifically planted for that purpose, are harvested for paper pulp. More of your same propaganda, big guy. At least you're not repeating yourself today.

By ThatGuy @ 10/08/09 04:41:52 PMreport abuse

50%

I think that Zardo has arrived at a solution.

Since toilet paper is normally two ply, why not use recycle on top sheet, and old forest on bottom sheet?

That would be a bipartisan solution!

By Scott @ 10/08/09 03:40:46 PMreport abuse

i use one sheet soft on top and one sheet green on bottom. not the best environmentally friendly solution, but better than not doing anything at all.

By zardo @ 10/08/09 03:36:06 PMreport abuse

Messy Situation!

Do we get a pass on this issue if we promise to use both sides of the paper?

Of course doing so would increase hand washing and overall soap consumption!

By Scott @ 10/08/09 03:16:59 PMreport abuse

No green for me

I tried that crappy green toilet paper, only beause I had a FREE coupon for it. It was rough and ugly stuff to use! Give me the soft stuff!

By Pat @ 10/08/09 03:05:50 PMreport abuse

A better way

We installed Toto washlets in our house (TP still available to guests) and we now skip the soft versus green debate entirely. The washlets are amazing gadgets that pay for themselves in a few years, and you leave the bathroom feeling just as clean as after a shower.

By Alex @ 10/08/09 02:53:34 PMreport abuse

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Oct 08, 2009 -- Ultra soft toilet paper a hazard to the environment

What others are saying